Grenades for fishing

[Gut shot]

Advantage ?  Race ?
Who are you competing against ?

[ruck]

Advantage ?  Race ?
Who are you competing against ?

The first time I ever shot a crossbow I made a 3" group at 50yds. I can't do that with a bow after 30 years of shooting! But whatever you guys say, it's not an advantage.
 The race thing was just another example. I mentioned snagging striped bass or using worms in fly fishing streams first, because I've read you guys oooooing about guys who do those things. Yet it's exactly the same thing as using crossbows in archery season, but because you feel differently on the subject it's OK for you to take a different stance?   
 Several years ago I was hunting a huge buck, his pics were posted here. I saw him once or twice, then he disappeared. One day I saw turkey vultures hovering around so I went to investigate. I found a treestand with a battery operated floodlight mounted to it. 20yds away was a pile of crushed pumpkins, with a bloody crossbow bolt sticking out of the ground, and a huge gut pile within sight. All this in a nature sanctuary in Westchester.  I lost a crack at the buck of a lifetime to a cheater who broke multiple rules to win. That's who I was competing against.
 

[GooseCommander]

Posted this in the other thread, posting it here as well.

Does anyone know how many deer were taken with a crossbow last year in NY?

It was 10,829 - a drop in the bucket to what is taken annually in NY of a five year average of 220,000. The thought that the woods will become filled with crossbow hunters if the season is extended more is ridiculous. Crossbow hunters in the southern zone already have the ability to hunt the heart of the rut yet only kill 10,000 to 12,000 deer annually. Allowing them to hunt starting October 1st I doubt will substantially increase that number. Even if it doubled, it would still be less than/half of the 40,000 deer bowhunters harvest annually. Our mission as hunters is Conservation. The DEC using science (whether we agree with it or not) sets take objectives and uses hunters as the tool to harvest the resource (deer to us) for the people of NY so both can live in harmony. If any effects from increasing/decreasing any season length/use of implements/etc, would be lowering or increasing the amount of DMPs to achieve total harvest goal.

When I first started out with archery tackle, I was chided for using a bow with training wheels. A group of local sportsman prided themselves in using just a stick and string - they nicknamed themselves the WOFW club (Without F'ing Wheels). Now having grown older, some of them have turned/forced to use the advanced vertical bow while I myself am working towards using my father's recurve to hunt with. Their effective range grew and mine is shrinking.

To me, a crossbow has more in common with a bow than does a firearm. Both a crossbow and bow propel a stick with a sharp head on it to cause a death due to a low-energy impact that kills by cutting vital tissues while bullets kill by high-energy impact that crushes tissue and bone. Yes, you can shoulder an already loaded crossbow and use a scope but the fact of the matter is you can't take shots at animals with a sharpen stick like you can with an object propelled with gun powder. Like someone pointed out, archers now have the ability to incorporate a range finder into their sight and hold 80% of the draw weight - I'm sure that isn't anymore effective than instinctive shooting with three fingers under a nocked arrow pulling back a full 50 pounds. Your effective range and shots you can take (regardless of weapon) is a personal one based on your practice regimen and experience and not that of someone else. At the end of the day, you endure the successes or consequences and how you handle each is more on how you are raised than what is said in a manual. In my mind, most people are good but yes some people exist that never shoot their weapon before hunting with it.

Generalizing that only bowhunters are the ones who spend time scouting, practicing, taking ethical shots or any other malarkey is just down right near sighted, ignorant and presumptuous. Many gun hunters exist that have great woodsmanship and hunting skill - they spend time hiking the mountains/woods looking for sign and food, running trail cameras and understanding the lay of the land just as any hunter would/should. The best ones (hunters that is) understand more finer details like thermals, how they shift morning and afternoon and how that interacts with the prevailing wind of the day and topography. All these things make a good/great hunter - not just an archer, gun hunter, muzzle load hunter or cross bow hunter.

Yes, the gun season is long in NY and I agree it could be shortened. However, I'm really not sure if shortening will have any effect as for the most part only opening weekend/week is the busiest time of the year. I was out the last Saturday of the gun season - saw 0 hunters and 9 deer on state land that opening day had many hunters. I hunted the last Sunday of the season on pressured private land - saw 10 deer and no hunters. Both days, the deer were on their feeding/bedding pattern and looking to survive the winter. One of my favorite methods of hunting I like to do is cutting a fresh buck track in the snow and running it down. Shortening the gun season would lessen the possible days of this endeavor.

My concern as a hunter/fisherman is not changes of implements/season lengths that cause minor fluctuations/adjustments, but habitat and access and recruitment/retention of hunters and fishermen. More than 90% of my hunting partners/camp/gun club members are older than me (I'm 40) and I'm not talking about a few years either. We are nearing a point where our conversation model funded by dollars from hunters and fishermen (as our demographic shrinks) won't be sustainable meaning we'll lose our voice and possibly our privilege to hunt (it isn't a right). Government bodies will turn more and more to sharp shooters and the ridiculous methods of deer sterilization to manage the herds. Given the choice between these methods or allowing some more hunters in the woods - I choose the latter.

Care less what weapon someone has in the woods as long as it is legal and they use it ethically both of which are more about their upbringing than laws governing us. The pursuit of fur/fin/feather should be an individual endeavor. As my grandfather told me, Comparison is the thief of all Happiness.

[Laundron]

Advantage ?  Race ?
Who are you competing against ?

The first time I ever shot a crossbow I made a 3" group at 50yds. I can't do that with a bow after 30 years of shooting! But whatever you guys say, it's not an advantage.
 The race thing was just another example. I mentioned snagging striped bass or using worms in fly fishing streams first, because I've read you guys oooooing about guys who do those things. Yet it's exactly the same thing as using crossbows in archery season, but because you feel differently on the subject it's OK for you to take a different stance?   
 Several years ago I was hunting a huge buck, his pics were posted here. I saw him once or twice, then he disappeared. One day I saw turkey vultures hovering around so I went to investigate. I found a treestand with a battery operated floodlight mounted to it. 20yds away was a pile of crushed pumpkins, with a bloody crossbow bolt sticking out of the ground, and a huge gut pile within sight. All this in a nature sanctuary in Westchester.  I lost a crack at the buck of a lifetime to a cheater who broke multiple rules to win. That's who I was competing against.

So a guy was using a light and had a bait pile but you are sounding off on crossbows?  Competing against someone that’s using many different illegal measures to win is different than competing against someone that you can do the same exact thing to win. If someone is using a crossbow during the correct season so can you.

[GooseCommander]

Advantage ?  Race ?
Who are you competing against ?

The first time I ever shot a crossbow I made a 3" group at 50yds. I can't do that with a bow after 30 years of shooting! But whatever you guys say, it's not an advantage.
 The race thing was just another example. I mentioned snagging striped bass or using worms in fly fishing streams first, because I've read you guys oooooing about guys who do those things. Yet it's exactly the same thing as using crossbows in archery season, but because you feel differently on the subject it's OK for you to take a different stance?   
 Several years ago I was hunting a huge buck, his pics were posted here. I saw him once or twice, then he disappeared. One day I saw turkey vultures hovering around so I went to investigate. I found a treestand with a battery operated floodlight mounted to it. 20yds away was a pile of crushed pumpkins, with a bloody crossbow bolt sticking out of the ground, and a huge gut pile within sight. All this in a nature sanctuary in Westchester.  I lost a crack at the buck of a lifetime to a cheater who broke multiple rules to win. That's who I was competing against.

So a guy was using a light and had a bait pile but you are sounding off on crossbows?  Competing against someone that’s using many different illegal measures to win is different than competing against someone that you can do the same exact thing to win. If someone is using a crossbow during the correct season so can you.

And trespassing by the sounds of it.

[Gut shot]

goose sounds like your Grandfather is a wise man .
                                  "Comparison is the thief of all Happiness."
                                                           
 

[Steve_J]

Fly fishing zones are the problem 

[DXT]

The liberal anti hunters love when we are divided.


  in this case, it was crossbow users who divided hunters by pushing for their own desire, to gain an unfair advantage over other hunters. If they wanted to hunt during archery season, no one was stopping them from doing so. In fact archery hunters would have welcomed them.
  But if a guy shows up to a bicycle race with a motorcycle, and then with relentless pushing and name calling is finally allowed to use it on the same track as the bicycles, don't you think the bicycle guys would be upset?

Well said 

[walkabout]

I really could care less what implement people choose to use but if your going to incorporate crossbows into the entire bow season then they shouldnt call it bow season any longer.. What would the crossbow hunters think if they also let shotguns into the 2 weeks of crossbow season?  Its the same point that ruck is trying to make. Its not a bow you do have a advantage. I dont think anyone here will ever see me hunt with a crossbow but i am thinking of buying one for my daughter so i have a few extra weeks of hunting with her.. With work college and everything else she has going on she just dont have the time to practice and be effective with the bow but what i hear is she can pretty much shoot the crossbow right out of the box.

[walkabout]

BOOM!!  Fish On.

[ATS1755]

  when all else fails, Fish On

BOOM!!  Fish On.

[Take Em]

How about those Yankees?   

[GooseCommander]

Got the hint.
Will move along, but expect this topic to come up again in each legislative session as bills keep being introduced to the NY legislative branch. Last year, State Senator Metzger (represents many HVS members in NY Senate District 42) introduced S5818 while Assembly Carrier Woerner introduced  A7627A

Bill names above are clickable links.

As always, contact your representative to let them know your thoughts.

As a Yankees fan, exciting to see Cole come pitch in NY but the Yankees don't do nearly as well when they sign many big free agents. More expectation and pressure now than ever to bring home the Commissioner's Trophy.

[walkabout]

We definitely do need to recruit new hunters. 7 to 8 years from now i plan on being a full time taxidermist for my retirement so ill need the work.. If crossbows are the answer then ill probably be all for it.

[ruck]

We definitely do need to recruit new hunters. 7 to 8 years from now i plan on being a full time taxidermist for my retirement so ill need the work.. If crossbows are the answer then ill probably be all for it.

Extremely few kids want to hunt these days, including mine. My son is 18, and he has no interest. I asked him if any of his friends hunt, and he said 1 kid, out of probably 100 that he knows of. When I was 18 probably 25% of the boys I knew hunted. Gonna be some big bucks running around as hunters dwindle.