New York Sportsmen
Hunting- In The New York Area => New York Big Game Hunting => Topic started by: Tippin'Scales on November 12, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
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Being we are more Statewide forum now I figured I post a question on what peoples thoughts are on the subject from those outside AR units?
Myself have being in the initial pilot program areas have seen and reaped the benefits of AR but am interested to hear others opinions. (beers)
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Don’t think it should be mandatory as to each their own and more people are doing it without being forced to these days
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Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and 3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.
Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.
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Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and 3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.
Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.
I am with DXT on this one......
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I hunt Columbia county and I really wish we had AR. It’s just a massacre of young bucks over here in Dutchess/Columbia county.
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Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and 3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.
Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.
I agree!
I am with DXT on this one......
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I hunt Columbia all my life. The age class of older bucks has increased without AR. I passed up numerous 6 and small eights this pass week. My belief is to let the hunter choose. My one target buck is a huge 4 point that is at least 4 1/2 old.
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I didn’t realize that my son who is 16 is allowed to shoot a buck with less than 3 on one side. Probably doesn’t matter because he always wants bigger . But he will be sitting alone this year for the first time. Thanks for the heads up DXT
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When Antler Restrictions first came out I was against them. My feelings have evolved and I am now strongly in favor. I like the fact that young hunters are exempt. The one significant change I would like to see is no restrictions for a hunter's first deer. I've been getting a new hunter into the sport and she has spent time in the woods but the only opportunity she has had was on a small buck. It would have meant a lot to her to be able to pull the trigger and complete the entire hunting experience and would likely make her far more likely to stick with the sport. If that one change could be made I think Antler Restrictions would be perfect.
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When Antler Restrictions first came out I was against them. My feelings have evolved and I am now strongly in favor. I like the fact that young hunters are exempt. The one significant change I would like to see is no restrictions for a hunter's first deer. I've been getting a new hunter into the sport and she has spent time in the woods but the only opportunity she has had was on a small buck. It would have meant a lot to her to be able to pull the trigger and complete the entire hunting experience and would likely make her far more likely to stick with the sport. If that one change could be made I think Antler Restrictions would be perfect.
I will offer up my 3J DMP to you Overland for you to use for the new Hunter....
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I didn’t realize that my son who is 16 is allowed to shoot a buck with less than 3 on one side. Probably doesn’t matter because he always wants bigger . But he will be sitting alone this year for the first time. Thanks for the heads up DXT
Heres a pic from the official guide to laws and regulations. Hey you never know Art he may see a giant 4 point, or something unique that he wants. Good luck guys!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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When Antler Restrictions first came out I was against them. My feelings have evolved and I am now strongly in favor. I like the fact that young hunters are exempt. The one significant change I would like to see is no restrictions for a hunter's first deer. I've been getting a new hunter into the sport and she has spent time in the woods but the only opportunity she has had was on a small buck. It would have meant a lot to her to be able to pull the trigger and complete the entire hunting experience and would likely make her far more likely to stick with the sport. If that one change could be made I think Antler Restrictions would be perfect.
I will offer up my 3J DMP to you Overland for you to use for the new Hunter....
I appreciate it and that's very kind. She has DMPs but last season her only opportunity was on a small buck, not a doe. She has very limited time to hunt. We will try again this season!
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Thanks Matt. You also.
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Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and 3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.
Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.
Couldn't agree more. I live and hunt in 3H and have seen tremendous results from AR.
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I'm with Greensider. As I've said before and will say again, as the season progresses I become less and less selective. By the end of the season I will be more than happy to kill a spike, three or four pointer. I hunt because I enjoy it and like the meat. I don't shoot does because I choose not to. In well over fifty years of deer hunting never needed antler restrictions to get a trophy and you don't either.
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We did a survey on here years ago. 250+ hunters participated in it and it was over 90% in favor of AR..
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To many rules not everyone is a trophy hunter.I'll give one example my wife only gets out a few times a year only 3 deer she saw were two 4pts and a spike could not shoot.Both of these would have been a trophy to her.What about the guy that only has a few days to hunt a year and has to pass because of the 3 on one side? you have to think about both sides.I hunt 3c and seen just as many big bucks before the antler restriction.
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I just remember as a young hunter how infrequently you saw decent racked bucks, if you saw horns you shot it because you would be hard pressed to get another opportunity the whole season. Nowadays I find being more selective alot easier because there are alot more up and coming bucks and usually a few shooter 2.5 7-8 pointers and at least 2 good 3.5 year old or better mature bucks in the area.
I have 3- 1.5 year old bucks sporting 7 or 8 point racks, that would never happen before AR. Something changed with genetics once the buck take age structure came together after 5 years of implementation.
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I have my #2 hit list buck I'm eyeing for this weekend. I'm pretty sure he's a stud 2.5 year old but maybe a 3.5, what do you guys think?
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In westchester there are alot of mature bucks because of the archery only rule but there are less then ever now a days. My theory is that forever it was always Nov. 1st was opening day archery. For at least 10 years now its been Oct. 1st. Thats 31 more days of guys shooting bucks in general big or small.
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Didn’t Mr. Henry do a post back a few years and mention all the positive affects of the antler restrictions besides just growing bigger horns? I Recall a very informative post by him, a wildlife biologist who explained it very well and stated nothing but facts, studies and research done by himself with all the good it does..... Id love to find that post because facts can’t be argued. We’re all going to have different opinions and explain why we agree or disagree.......
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Here they are wem.
https://dhenry.hudsonvalleysportsman.com/antler-restrictions/do-antler-restrictions-work/
https://dhenry.hudsonvalleysportsman.com/antler-restrictions/biological-and-other-compelling-needs-for-antler-restriction/
https://dhenry.hudsonvalleysportsman.com/whitetail-deer/2701/
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I have seen a huge improvement where i hunt in 4p....and i am strongly in favor of antler restrictions...i see a lot of people complain about their son, daughter, nephew and so on had to pass on a small buck because it was not legal...it seems to me they complain about the kill aspect of hunting....why does it have to be a buck that a kid harvests?...why not a doe?..im sure plenty of young hunter have a doe tag....but it seems like its always about not being able to shoot a buck....as far as i know antler restrictions do not apply to kids 17 and under...in my opinion, every hunter wants to kill a big buck...meat hunter or trophy hunter or whatever...if a 300 pound doe walked in front of them with a 180" buck that weighed 140 pounds, which one will the "meat" hunter shoot?..cmon....i never shot a doe or spike in my 35 years of hunting and i too was once a young hunter...but that was me...im not saying everyone should do as i did , it was my choice.....lets not make it about the "kill"....we as parents should teach our kids to enjoy the whole aspect of hunting.
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Tippin scales that looks like an old deer do you have pictures from previous years I don’t think a wild 2 year old would produce a rack like that
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Tippen im thinking 2.5 look at its back line its still nice and straight . Deer has no muscular characteristics of a muture deer. Long legs no pot belly no block head and neck and body junction very small. Its a young buck with a nice rack.. JMO.
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You are probably correct but something doesn’t look right about his body actually looks a little sickly hopefully just the shot do you have any other pictures
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Here are a couple more pics. He is not sickly looking at all just doesn't have that 3.5 or more mature look IMO. His nose is kinda short and pointy is what stands out to me most. From what I know my bow buck was the biggest in my area even talking with neighbors, this one is next largest unfortunately letting him walk another year is unlikely productive because of surrounding hunting pressure and State lands that get hunted hard in close proximity. To me with harvesting a good Archery buck I won't shoot anything less than one pictured rest of season, I'd love for for son to get him as his first buck but he's not interested as much as I am. Those good daylight pics he was supposed to go out hunting with me and as much I tried he declined... I went and sat in stand at 2:50 and after pulling cards this buck came thru at 2:35pm which if he had gone I wanted to be in blind before 2pm. Ugh.... pictures were 5y from blind.
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Definitely looks a little fuller in body looked skinny in other ones I think 3 years old but by far no expert
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I have seen a huge improvement where i hunt in 4p....and i am strongly in favor of antler restrictions...i see a lot of people complain about their son, daughter, nephew and so on had to pass on a small buck because it was not legal...it seems to me they complain about the kill aspect of hunting....why does it have to be a buck that a kid harvests?...why not a doe?..im sure plenty of young hunter have a doe tag....but it seems like its always about not being able to shoot a buck....as far as i know antler restrictions do not apply to kids 17 and under...in my opinion, every hunter wants to kill a big buck...meat hunter or trophy hunter or whatever...if a 300 pound doe walked in front of them with a 180" buck that weighed 140 pounds, which one will the "meat" hunter shoot?..cmon....i never shot a doe or spike in my 35 years of hunting and i too was once a young hunter...but that was me...im not saying everyone should do as i did , it was my choice.....lets not make it about the "kill"....we as parents should teach our kids to enjoy the whole aspect of hunting.
Robert in a few of my debates alot of typically older hunters will under no circumstances shoot a doe but but will vehemently argue they want and will shoot a small spike or forkhorn instead, can you shed some light on this for me? It's ultimately anyone's choice if in a legal area and I respect it I just don't understand why not a doe....
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Tippen im thinking 2.5 look at its back line its still nice and straight . Deer has no muscular characteristics of a muture deer. Long legs no pot belly no block head and neck and body junction very small. Its a young buck with a nice rack.. JMO.
I agree
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Tippen im thinking 2.5 look at its back line its still nice and straight . Deer has no muscular characteristics of a muture deer. Long legs no pot belly no block head and neck and body junction very small. Its a young buck with a nice rack.. JMO.
I agree
That too is my thinking a really good 2.5 year old. Hopefully he's spread his seed with a bunch of does before I see him again ;D
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In response to not shooting a doe, I think it is the fact that a doe is biologically the only one that can produce offspring (yes a buck is needed, but only for the breeding). At least that is my experience from having grown up in northern NY where deer numbers are quite less than here in the HV.
Take for instance, a single doe which left unharvested for 3 years can directly/indirectly produce 8 deer on the landscape if all deer born to her and her offspring were does. Basically, the population doubles (not taking into account any negative effects resulting in a death). If twins are born, the numbers increase faster like a pyramid scheme. A doe producing twin fawns one being a doe and the other a buck would be ideal. Most states (including NY), their deer management plan is reactionary in the fact that if their is a negative impact to the herd (winter kill, higher than expected harvest, some rampant disease) it will take a bit longer to get the numbers back (reduction in doe permits for a time being is really the only tool NY DEC has). So to shoot the young buck, it only negatively impacts the potential for a larger one provided it makes it to 3.5 years or older. Harvesting a doe, impacts the subsequent population - what the DEC tries to manage with DMPs (only one facet of a deer management strategy).
While AR is great, I feel it only moves the line in the sand from harvesting any 1.5 year old bucks to harvesting 2.5 year olds - still far from their potential. I just spent 4 days bow hunting public land in Ohio and their deer management plan is different than NY's. They allow only the harvest of 1 buck a year, 1 doe on public land a year (a recent change to increase the deer population from a dip) and a short gun season outside the rut (7 days in early December and 2 days in mid December). They also have a 4 day muzzleloader season in January. You can't harvest a doe on public land after the first gun season. Their bow season runs until the end of February and allow crossbows the entire season. They also enforce their deer laws with greater severity.
With that said, my group had some of the best public deer hunting to date - I can only imagine what access to private land could be like out there. We saw deer from different age classes even with an unbelievable amount of hunting pressure (saw plates from Michigan, Vermont, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York). The woods were literally littered with hunters, trail cameras, stands and glow in the dark tacks. With all this, I personally saw 8 does and 5 bucks including a 150 inch class bruiser, 120 inch 8 pointer and 3 basket racks - all this while hunting new spots each day learning the area.
I'm not saying AR doesn't work (I think it has been a good first step and would be in favor of it state wide), but in Ohio our group was willing to pass on the 100 to 120 inch deer knowing there was a good possibility of seeing something better. In NY, we are shooting those 100 to 120 inch deer. Also, ODNR more readily manages their habitat by logging and mowing their public lands as well as planting food plots - something very lacking here in NY.
In the end, some will say AR is great and some will say it isn't enough - I say just enjoy hunting and what it means to you as long as it is done ethically and legally.
And no, I didn't connect with anything in Ohio, but we are going back next year for 9 days instead of 4 days.
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I'd say GooseCommander is right on it. AR is only one piece to the puzzle. If the state wants to achieve goals (which ultimately is a healthy age and sex makeup) they need to re-think season dates and harvests to include when you can use gun/bow/crossbow/muzzle. That followed by taking a greater and more active role in habitat management. I guess there is a reason you saw all those different license plates in Ohio. You'd be hard pressed to find that here in NY.
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In westchester there are alot of mature bucks because of the archery only rule but there are less then ever now a days. My theory is that forever it was always Nov. 1st was opening day archery. For at least 10 years now its been Oct. 1st. Thats 31 more days of guys shooting bucks in general big or small.
I agree Chris! That and A LOT of competition for limited access areas!
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touchy subject for some ….. I have personally seen the rewards of not shooting YOUNG bucks on private property ….. after 5 years I now see multiple 8 pointers and up on a piece of property that had big spikes and 4 pointers walking around ….. letting a deer live to 3 or 4 years will produce decent racks …… theres plenty of doe permits available for those who want meat ….. forcing someone's else will onto others will never be well received but patience will pay off ….
heres 2 discussions on the subject ……mARK Kenyon WITH sTEVE Rinella https://youtu.be/TeV68FDB5NM
AND AN ARTICLE
https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/whitetail-deer/do-antler-point-restrictions-work
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Tippin..as far as why older hunters would choose to shoot a doe over a buck, i still believe there are a lot of hunters out there who believe that 1.5 old spikes and fours will never amount to anything bigger and they would rather shoot them thinking they are helping the gene pool out...which is not the case....i personally do not eat venison so i wouldnt know , does a doe taste better than a buck?....again, people should do what makes them happy....another thing i find funny is that almost everytime you see a hunter post a doe kill, its always followed with..."i shot this huge mature doe" or some other statement as if to justify why they killed a doe....whats wrong with just saying " i shot this doe this afternoon"....i dunno...theres no need to justify what you shoot...so long as your happy
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Did anyone take the time to read the Mr Henry’s previous post? I don’t know how it can be argued.
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See what you started Pat? x:)
I’m all for AR. Started hunting about 30yrs ago in 3C and you very rarely saw someone with a really nice buck. Nowadays more and more guys are seeing and harvesting several mature bucks in the same 3C area that I live and hunt. I’m also seeing an increase in the doe population which is a beautiful thing. I would however like to see the hunters around 60-65 to be exempt from AR just like the youths.
One other thing. I feel a little safer knowing some yahoo can’t just fire off shots at something brown moving in the thicket. I was afraid to walk through some patches of woods back in the day. Antler restriction has made the rifle season a bit safer in my opinion.
And maybe someday I’ll share some of my trail cam photos to help back things up 8)
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See what you started Pat? x:)
I’m all for AR. Started hunting about 30yrs ago in 3C and you very rarely saw someone with a really nice buck. And nowadays more and more guys are seeing and harvesting mature bucks in the same unit. I’m also seeing an increase in doe population. I would however like them to allow hunters over 60 or 65 to be exempt from AR just like the youths.
Haha, I wanted to spice things up in here.... I knew it would inspire some open conversations for a change.
I agree with the AR exemption for over 65 plus maybe those 65 could use crossbow all of Archery season.
I'm interested to hear if you guys and gals think possibly the advances and affordability of trail cameras have also aided in modern hunters being more selective? Unlike the early years you just never really knew what was in your area until put eyes on a buck in the field so was this part of the instinct to shoot first legal buck or spike you come across?
Has technology changed our mindset about AR too ?
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Absolutely cameras help young bucks get a pass I know several hunters who once seeing a big buck on camera in their spot will let bucks they would have taken get a pass
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Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and 3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.
Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.
Well said! I not only believe in the antler restriction, but I also think NY could benefit from an earn a buck tag program that would require hunters to take and report an antlerless deer before being issued their buck tag. That would improve the buck/doe ratio and in concert with the antler restrictions the herd would mature and improve even more.
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I'm 100% for antler restrictions, except for a youth hunters first buck.
The argument guys toss around about really needing the meat is absurd in this day and age, go get a job, or shoplift a grocery store. OK, I'm being harsh, so maybe for those poor unfortunates, the DEC can make it so that if you don't get a doe tag, your regular license can be used either for an AR buck, or a doe. After all, this is a liberal state, we wouldn't want to see anyone go hungry.
For safety reasons I don't think there should ever be a scenario where every deer is legal. That would only encourage certain brain deads to shoot at sounds and shapes in the semi darkness.
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I am 100% for ar, the deer are getting bigger and as mentioned the first year bucks seem to be carrying better genetics, I am all about shoot a doe and let em grow, we have a way out of balance deer heard which is a cause for smaller bucks not enough nutrients to produce the heave antlers due to an over abundance of does,
p.s I have never made an excuse for shooting a doe, be it mature or a yearling, a family favorite is rack of Bambi
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I agree with greensider. I think there’s something up with that deer. He looks malnourished the fat deposit above the tail is missing and looks thin. Nice rack on him for sure.
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I am in favor of AR but also people are doing their homework a lot more now and that can account for more big bucks too. Lots of people are scouting public land or setting up their private land for deer habitat. A lot less just sitting a random stump 150yds from the road and a lot more scouting and calculated sits happening. At least from the dedicated hunters. This mixed with people more willing to pass younger deer willingly and the numbers of mature bucks goes up.
I have heard it discussed by biologist and seen mentioned here already so I won't attempt to describe again but killing a doe annually will not destroy a herd like once thought.
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I agree 100% with goose commander...... I am in favor of AR but that is just a piece of the puzzle...... i honestly believe what hurts buck populations more is the length of archery season combined with the increase in the amount of guys who bow/crossbow hunt....... in my fathers generation opening day of rifle was sacred.....now one has to wonder how many bucks are getting harvested before a rifle shot is fired? ...... correct me if im wrong because i dont bow hunt (just crossbow) but if you get your rifle tag, bow tag and muzzle loader/crossbow tag you can technically take 3 bucks?
also as someone who has a lake house in the north country (Newcomb NY) and routinely hunts the Adirondack mountains i am 100% against statewide AR....... guys who are calling for that have obviously never hunted the Adirondack mountains and if they have and are still calling for it, they outa have their heads examined lol.......you could go literally years without seeing a buck and its actually WORK to go hunting...... we "still" hunt many miles per day and do deer drives over pretty high peaks...... most bucks die of old age without ever seeing a human...... and given the fact that you CANNOT harvest doe's in the Adirondack park, i would shoot a small buck up there in a heart beat because of the hard work involved in the entire affair.......
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@ Bandhunter, no it's only 2 bucks. Bow/ muzelloader and crossbow all share same either sex tag.
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i gotcha thank you..... i assumed you get an additional bow tag if you have bow privilege......
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Band hunter, IMO our 3+week rifle season in middle of Rut affects the buck take more than a lengthy Archery season. Most other states with good nutrition, soils and genetics that enable mature deer without AR typically have 1 week rifle or shotgun only season after Rut. Here in NY Adirondacks and High Peaks of Catskills aside maintaining a deer herd below carrying capacity if lands is just as big a part of doe take other than just growing big racks. AR and available DMP'S incentives taking of does to achieve this. Back in 80's I remember tons of areas within 3J where the browse line from deer overpopulation was everywhere.... now it's far less noticeable in most areas IMO.
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Lots of good turkey hunting in newcomb. ;)
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I am all for AR. I would love to see NY have antler restrictions for most if not all of the state. I wish NYS would set up some type of poll for each WMU where hunters can vote on it when they buy their hunting tags. If the majority of the votes are for it, implement the AR for that WMU the following year.
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+ 1 more for pro antler restrictions. No way to argue with it in my opinion.
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Been fuming about this for weeks so will say my piece and be done with it. To all you "young bucks" and "mountain goats" remember time will come when your not so fortunate. Many fine sportsman may be in not as good shape, not so healthy or are just not as gifted a hunter. Maybe they can only walk a short distance or can't drag an animal long distances, don't have the time off or don't have a prime place to hunt. I'm quite sure you know hunters who haven't shot a buck in years or maybe never. The bit about an older deer weighing more doesn't mean a whole lot. Guess we shouldn't shoot small does, buttons and fawns then. If you want to trophy hunt that's fine but that trophy might be a spike to many hunters. The last point, and it's not important to the "me" generation is about my dad. He taught me to be a sportsman. When he was sick we bundled him up and put him on a good run. He was 63 and had killed a number of nice bucks. We pushed to him and bang. I knew he didn't shoot a doe. When I got to him he smiled like a kid and pointed "right over there." He shot a spike. No antler restrictions back then. He was one of the "boys" again. That was his last season. I still have the horns.
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Been fuming about this for weeks so will say my piece and be done with it. To all you "young bucks" and "mountain goats" remember time will come when your not so fortunate. Many fine sportsman may be in not as good shape, not so healthy or are just not as gifted a hunter. Maybe they can only walk a short distance or can't drag an animal long distances, don't have the time off or don't have a prime place to hunt. I'm quite sure you know hunters who haven't shot a buck in years or maybe never. The bit about an older deer weighing more doesn't mean a whole lot. Guess we shouldn't shoot small does, buttons and fawns then. If you want to trophy hunt that's fine but that trophy might be a spike to many hunters. The last point, and it's not important to the "me" generation is about my dad. He taught me to be a sportsman. When he was sick we bundled him up and put him on a good run. He was 63 and had killed a number of nice bucks. We pushed to him and bang. I knew he didn't shoot a doe. When I got to him he smiled like a kid and pointed "right over there." He shot a spike. No antler restrictions back then. He was one of the "boys" again. That was his last season. I still have the horns.
I am pro AR but do think that seniors 65 and older be exempt just like Junior hunters for reason you say.
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Any adk hunters support restrictions.?
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You can't eat antlers. :D
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Any adk hunters support restrictions.?
I support them everywhere except the Adirondacks...... cant shoot doe in ADK Park and most bucks die of old age without ever seeing a human...... absolutely no need for it.......
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Any adk hunters support restrictions.?
I definitely agree with you, those ADK bucks get big on there .
I support them everywhere except the Adirondacks...... cant shoot doe in ADK Park and most bucks die of old age without ever seeing a human...... absolutely no need for it.......
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Im selfish 66 years old been hunting for 52 years feel i should have the right shoot what i want.I HUNT IN A NON AR spot i like it
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Im selfish 66 years old been hunting for 52 years feel i should have the right shoot what i want.I HUNT IN A NON AR spot i like it
Good point, and like tipping scales has said there should be a exemption for seniors as well along with the youths. But with that said I must admit, I really very rarely ever even see bucks without 3points on one side. Most all of the tiny bucks I see are 5 6 7 8 points with their very first set of antlers, I hardly ever see spikes and 4 points anymore, (and I have pics to prove it ) years ago there was WAY more spikes and 4pts than now a days. There's PLENTY of legal bucks out there.
But like I said, I do think that there should be a exemption for seniors along with the youths.
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+1
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From what I’ve seen, it just plain old works. Lots of 2.5 year old bucks being brought in to me. More 2.5’s or older than 1.5’s. I just wish more bucks made it to 3.5+ in the low lands. For that to pan out I believe we’d need to become a 1 buck state.
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As a sullivan county guy I support the AR. I see both sides though. While at a buddy's house this weekend I realized that AR might detour new hunters. My buddy's wife is going to start hunting and they have 10 acres. She wants to use a rifle and hunt her own property, doesn't care the size of the deer she just wants the meat and experience. There are no rarely 3h doe tags handed out (where they live) and her property has ok doe traffic. Only 2 legal bucks passed thru on their game camera and were at night during the rut. These types of situations make me wish there were exceptions for 1st year hunters. If a new hunter is in this situation, they may try hunting a year or two then give up. I only started in 2017 and have had success on public land this year but not everybody has the time and will power to study maps, listen to hunting podcast and read books. She just wants to sit out opening day and fill the freezer. That tradition is going to continue to have less and less people as the years go on. AR adds one more reason for a new hunter to get discouraged. I need to convince her to get a crossbow instead and maybe a small food plot and set a blind over it. That should hopefully assist in filling the freezer.
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From what I’ve seen, it just plain old works. Lots of 2.5 year old bucks being brought in to me. More 2.5’s or older than 1.5’s. I just wish more bucks made it to 3.5+ in the low lands. For that to pan out I believe we’d need to become a 1 buck state.
Agree with you b-g-k
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I was just wondering how many times while hunting you have time to count the points on a deer. So your hunting and see a rack that you think is legal and shoot. And when you approach it, its only a four pointer. Now what do you do. Most likely you go back to your stand and continue hunting letting that deer lay there to rot. I know that a bunch of people are going to say they will report it and face fines BS no one wants to deal with the law. So I feel AR does more harm then good.
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A friend who hunts in oneonta had a lot of bucks chasing does he hunts a mix on hardwood and hemlocks you don’t have much time to shoot he was getting so mad because he was seeing good racked bucks but couldn’t shoot because not enough time to count points he is in his 70s who knows how many seasons he has left he should not have to count points jmo
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It's been quite awhile since I stressed about counting points, 99% of time if it's a good sized rack deer consistent with a 2.5 year old its gonna have 3 on one side. On my cameras I've come to conclusion that 85% of my 1.5 year olds are also 3points or more on one side.
I understand it might be frustrating trying to diligently identify a buck and points. I really came into my own honing skills and maturing as a hunter with a bow so even when Gun hunting I won't take running shots and to be honest i cant remember last time i shot a deer more than 70 yards so split second decisions for me are easy. I know everyone is different and criteria and that's ok, I just can't remember a situation where in a buck frenzy not being able to pick out the biggest racked deer and I hunt thick stuff not open timber or fields but having a clear shot is the challenge. And as stated before I do wish seniors were exempt and maybe even bump the youth age a year or 2 to get more kids involved in this dying sporr.
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I really like the way Ohio manages their herd. It is a One buck state with any weapon. Their gun season is only about a week long that is after the rut, but with the use of crossbows, I feel it still leaves a lot of opportunity for those that do not bow hunt.
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Ok so jmop. I believe from my 35 plus years hunting you do have time to count horns. That extra time I believe makes the woods much safer. If you only have a split second to shoot no one can make me believe it would be a well placed and or safe shot. Accidents happen and I believe AR is not just good for the herd it also makes the woods safer having to identify your target and make 100% sure what you are shooting. Ok I am done.😁