New York Sportsmen
Hunting- In The New York Area => New York Crossbow & Muzzleloader hunting => Topic started by: coyotekiller on October 13, 2021, 06:09:54 AM
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I spoke to Brian Miller our member of 101st district assembly. It was about the crossbow being left out again during bow season. He told me to let everyone who crossbow hunts to email there legislators in there districts. So we are not left out again next year. We need to be heard. Remember there our woods also. LET MAKE SOME NOISE. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HUNT ALSO.
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I support this measure as well and found the email - millerb@nyassembly.gov I support it because 4 years ago when I first hunted, I got proficient with a crossbow (with an all in price of well under $400) and was able to harvest my first buck. Now I am hooked and use a compound but I will never forget how beneficial crossbows are for beginners. And not to mention people who are injured or older who can no longer pull a bow back. To me, a crossbow only has a slight advantage over a compound, if any at all. How easy it is to be accurate you are giving up some benefits of a compound. Its time to be like other states (PA) and allow it all season.
Allowing them is not going to increase the hunters in Oct by that much. Just like the sept season wasn't a big deal. It brings out the diehards imo. Most people are not hunting Oct anyway so why not allow the folks who really want to hunt with a crossbow get out there? And the answer is: cause money talks
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Crossbow is no different than a compound, Id argue that. Toughest part of bowhunting is drawing bow when deer is in range and not be detected. Dont have to do that with crossbow. One reason of many. Money talks what money would that be?
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Crossbow is no different than a compound, Id argue that. Toughest part of bowhunting is drawing bow when deer is in range and not be detected. Dont have to do that with crossbow. One reason of many. Money talks what money would that be?
Agreed. And the other tough part of compound is practice, practice, practice. With a crossbow, just sight in the scope and you're good to go, even at ranges two, three, or four times as far as a compound. I'm strongly against the inclusion of crossbows during bow season other than for those with disabilities. For those who argue there is no advantage, then go ahead and just use a compound.
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Im open to both sides of the argument. i had a opportunity to try a crossbow last season and missed a decent buck at about 45 yards shot right over him.. its in a sense easier then a bow because of the fact u dont have that movement of pulling back but you still need to practice judging your distance. On the other hand we need to do more to get young kids in the woods and im all for that.
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True on getting more kids in the woods. But everything the DEC has tried to increase #s has failed. Saturday opening day, youth hunts, lowering age. And they take very little imput from sportsman when it comes to hunting fishing and trapping. And early rifle season in areas that were devastated by EHD last year. Another great idea.
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Crossbow is no different than a compound, Id argue that. Toughest part of bowhunting is drawing bow when deer is in range and not be detected. Dont have to do that with crossbow. One reason of many. Money talks what money would that be?
The money talks part is because Ive heard that the bowhunter lobbys in NY are strong and we know money sways politicians. I tried to fact check if that is true but not an easy thing to google. So that take with a grain of salt.
I prefer the compound personally even with the option of the crossbow. But I find them about even because I hunt from the ground mostly, I put on a lot of miles and the compound is much lighter and easier to carry. Also, I never even considered what I would do if I needed to get a second shot off with a xbow from a stand.
Although it is much easier to get proficient with a crossbow, I would still not recommend shooting 40-50yds+ from a tree. Those shots are reserved for target practice and the range. I would limit my shots to 40yds and below personally since I am in the hardwoods mostly. So with the range being similar from Compound to xbow if you practice, why are we trying to make it harder for people to get proficient? We should be encouraging people to get out there, practice and make smart shots.
I'm newer to hunting and did not grow up with it and I can't help but notice that hunting more so than other topics, people have a hard time letting go of tradition. That is mostly good but sometimes bad. In this case allowing crossbow is part of keeping the sport alive. We should be promoting getting more people into the woods, not limiting it.
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The money part is right but look at insurance companies as the one's that control the politicans. Don't believe bow lobby you speak of is terribly well funded. But don't know for sure. Would like to see reaction of hunters if it went back to one buck a year. Most probably wouldn't think that was fair.
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You are not being "left out" of archery season, in the same way a motorcyclist isn't being "left out" of a bicycle race, or a rifle hunter isn't being "left out" of archery season. It's not rifle season, it's not crossbow season, it's ARCHERY season. To argue in any sense that firing a crossbow is archery, is just absurd.
Acting all entitled, and expecting the DEC to cave to your demands, is exactly the same behavior as these men, who claim they are women, and then want to compete against women in sports. It's pathetic actually.
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And to point above , how many guys hunt with crossbow during gun season. Not many I'd bet.
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Ok so I am all in! Bow hunting when I was younger was recurve bows and long bows . Then went to compound bows and now we have good cross bows. Many of us hunting and blue colors guys are shot ! Pulling back a bow is tough shoulder surgery etc . Love hunting and being out there! Let’s open up more opritunity for all hunters !
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It might as well be legal during bow season. So many hardcore bow hunters are worried but they clearly never shot or know anything about a NY legal crossbow
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All you bow hunters say practice practice practice. I have been bow hunting since 1978. But lets be honest here if it was NOT FOR DEER SEARCH. There would be many deer and bear not recovered because of poor shot placement. you dont see anyone crying because of inline muzzleloaders. why not say flintlock only. why very few would hunt muzzleloader. lts share the woods it belongs to us all. weapon should be matter of choice.
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They talk about advantages of scopes on crossbows. lets look back. In 1978 when i started bow hunting i shot a browning safari no drop away rest or whisker biscuit to hold my arrow from falling off it was a flipper rest' no fiber optic site with light on side to illuminate it was brass pins with colored paint no release it was fingers back then. no 90 percent letoff it was 50. look how much it changed but thats ok it fits your criteria. lets share the woods its not that hard
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So lets open deer season Oct 1 to Dec 31 weapon of choice. Makes perfect sense then no one feels left out. Then everyone will be happy.
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Acting all entitled, and expecting the DEC to cave to your demands, is exactly the same behavior as these men, who claim they are women, and then want to compete against women in sports. It's pathetic actually.
Actually what is pathetic is you trying to put a fellow hunter down because he wants to use a crossbow in Oct. We all have oooo we wish the DEC would do. Hell I think the DEC should have took a closer look at the DMPs for 3m and 3J this year, does that me entitled too?
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there’s Really not a tremendous difference in lethality of a crossbow over a compound, as long as you get relatively competent at archery. They’re still a close range weapon, that’s reliant on good shot placement, and that can easily have a shot deflected by brush. plus you’re giving up your ability to make a second shot, whereas a quiet bow, you can often take another one. Then, you have the awkwardness of carrying..
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So lets open deer season Oct 1 to Dec 31 weapon of choice. Makes perfect sense then no one feels left out. Then everyone will be happy.
Cave to those who, in their tiny brains, feel discriminated against. I guess it's the Democrat way, and this is NY, so....
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I guess some on here are very narrow minded in there believes. why do they call it a crossbow? That is easy here is why. longbow recurvebow compoundbow crossbow all shoot a shaft with a broad head in front and vanes or feathers on the rear using limbs and strings to propel it.
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Was sarcastic Ruck. But i'm sure there are plenty that would agree with it. Simple fact NY requires you to buy a muzzeloader stamp to hunt with crossbow. Why wouldn't it be under archery tag if it was archery equipment? And if answer is to sell more tags, then why not make people buy a cross bow tag. Legit question.
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Let’s keep it cordial men. No need for name calling. Opinions are important for both sides but name calling is off limits here. Both have valid points so let the readers decide…..without the mud slinging. Moderator
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I guess some on here are very narrow minded in there believes. why do they call it a crossbow? That is easy here is why. longbow recurvebow compoundbow crossbow all shoot a shaft with a broad head in front and vanes or feathers on the rear using limbs and strings to propel it.
A motorcycle rides on two wheels, you sit on top of it, it has handlebars, a seat, and the rear wheel is powered by a belt or chain. Therefore it is a bicycle, and should be allowed in bicycle races. It sounds silly, but that is the exact logic you are attempting to use.
A crossbow is different than a bow, the way you load the power, the way you hold and aim it, that you can fire it with almost zero movement, all very different than archery.
I am not anti crossbow, it absolutely should be permitted, during gun and muzzleloader season, because it is fired in the exact same manner as those two.
I'm curious, these guns that fire arrows, using a gunpowder charge, is that archery too? I'm being serious here, because I've heard people claim it is archery too.
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I guess some on here are very narrow minded in there believes. why do they call it a crossbow? That is easy here is why. longbow recurvebow compoundbow crossbow all shoot a shaft with a broad head in front and vanes or feathers on the rear using limbs and strings to propel it.
A motorcycle rides on two wheels, you sit on top of it, it has handlebars, a seat, and the rear wheel is powered by a belt or chain. Therefore it is a bicycle, and should be allowed in bicycle races. It sounds silly, but that is the exact logic you are attempting to use.
A crossbow is different than a bow, the way you load the power, the way you hold and aim it, that you can fire it with almost zero movement, all very different than archery.
I am not anti crossbow, it absolutely should be permitted, during gun and muzzleloader season, because it is fired in the exact same manner as those two.
I'm curious, these guns that fire arrows, using a gunpowder charge, is that archery too? I'm being serious here, because I've heard people claim it is archery too.
Good point Ruck!
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Was sarcastic Ruck. But i'm sure there are plenty that would agree with it. Simple fact NY requires you to buy a muzzeloader stamp to hunt with crossbow. Why wouldn't it be under archery tag if it was archery equipment? And if answer is to sell more tags, then why not make people buy a cross bow tag. Legit question.
This is a really good point. What is the actual answer to this?
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Sadly Ruck gun you speak of will be next. Sad but true.
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The last time I rode a bike I peddled it. It did not have a gas engine. Big difference.
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The last time I shot a bow I held it at arms length, drew it back, anchored against my jaw, aimed, and released. I did not load it before getting on stand. I did not rest it on my treestand rail, put the stock against my shoulder, release the trigger safety, aim through a variable power scope, and fire, all with almost zero movement. The last time I did those things was when I hunted with a GUN!
This could go on forever, we disagree. You want to let kids under 18 use the crossbow during archery season, to spark an interest in hunting, fine. But after that use archery equipment to hunt during archery season, and I won't fish in fly fishing only streams with my spinning reel.
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The last time I shot a bow I held it at arms length, drew it back, anchored against my jaw, aimed, and released. I did not load it before getting on stand. I did not rest it on my treestand rail, put the stock against my shoulder, release the trigger safety, aim through a variable power scope, and fire, all with almost zero movement. The last time I did those things was when I hunted with a GUN!
This could go on forever, we disagree. You want to let kids under 18 use the crossbow during archery season, to spark an interest in hunting, fine. But after that use archery equipment to hunt during archery season, and I won't fish in fly fishing only streams with my spinning reel.
gotta say, I think this pretty much sums it up. Well said! And PS for the guys who said I can’t pull a bow back anymore…. NYS for many years allows crossbow for hunters who apply, and get medical documentation. Been that way a long time.
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Traditional bow hunters probably said the same thing when the 1st Fred bear compound came out , knock an arrow, hold with your fingers until ready to release, then aim and release.
Not clip the release, look through the peep, make sure your arrow is sitting in the whisker biscuit or fall away rest. Come on guys we’re all doing the same god damn thing…. Argument after argument, debate after debate, at the end of the day we are a slowly but surely declining sport and need to find a way to come together and find a happy medium. Just my two cents.
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It’s debates like this that keeps reducing hunter numbers. We need more hunters not less. The crossbow is a great choice to get young hunters and first time hunters in the woods during the warmer weather. A dead deer is a dead deer regardless of the weapon used. Manage tags given out, not weapons used.
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It’s debates like this that keeps reducing hunter numbers. We need more hunters not less. The crossbow is a great choice to get young hunters and first time hunters in the woods during the warmer weather. A dead deer is a dead deer regardless of the weapon used. Manage tags given out, not weapons used.
Do you think they should make airbows legal in NY for bow hunting? (Not trying to make any point asking this, just actually wondering what you think.)
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We should be asking the youth what they enjoy using to harvest deer and keep them hunting. I bet a majority of the people on this thread are over 50. We need to focus on the youth and recruitment or there will be no more hunting
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We can play the "oh if that is legal why isn't this legal" game all day long. The fact is crossbows will eventually be allowed all of October and in 10 years, when the older generation who is fighting it tooth and nail (by hurling insults) can't pull back anymore, they will be very happy sitting in their blind over a food plot with a crossbow... in Oct (hell maybe even september ;))
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Money talks bulloooo walks in NewYork!!!!
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I could be totally off base here, but it seems like a lot of the seasons, restrictions, tags, and other conditions are all tools to manage the herd as a whole. If a tool is deemed as more effective or efficient, there are shorter seasons or more restrictions for it's use. Traditional (non-crossbow) archery seems to have the longest seasons and least restrictions correlating to the lower success rate. I can see the similarities between crossbows and muzzleloaders, so needing that tag is reasonable, but allowing it's use in late bow season is a concession to the similarities with archery (with respect to effective range, at least), and restricts the use of it to less time overall than traditional archery. If an airbow or a muzzleloader firing an arrow are permitted, then they'd fit into muzzleloader season only, in all probability, for the same reasons. When the deer herd is decreased, then more restrictions or shorter seasons would apply.
Aside from that, it seems like the wildlife biologists are trying to accommodate the hunters with whatever tool they choose to use, and they establish a framework of seasons, restrictions, tags, and accessibility to fit within the herd management objectives.
Whether people using longbows, recurves, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, percussion, in-lines, handguns, iron sights, telescopic sights, or anything else all approve of each other's choice of implement is not their concern. They just need to manage the program to be within what their herd management objectives are. If a new implement gains popularity, and enough people express an interest in using it, they'll find a place for it.
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If the DEC said no more mechanical release aid you guys would go crazy. Probably more than 75 percent can't pull their bow back without it. But that's ok
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I could be totally off base here, but it seems like a lot of the seasons, restrictions, tags, and other conditions are all tools to manage the herd as a whole. If a tool is deemed as more effective or efficient, there are shorter seasons or more restrictions for it's use. Traditional (non-crossbow) archery seems to have the longest seasons and least restrictions correlating to the lower success rate. I can see the similarities between crossbows and muzzleloaders, so needing that tag is reasonable, but allowing it's use in late bow season is a concession to the similarities with archery (with respect to effective range, at least), and restricts the use of it to less time overall than traditional archery. If an airbow or a muzzleloader firing an arrow are permitted, then they'd fit into muzzleloader season only, in all probability, for the same reasons. When the deer herd is decreased, then more restrictions or shorter seasons would apply.
Aside from that, it seems like the wildlife biologists are trying to accommodate the hunters with whatever tool they choose to use, and they establish a framework of seasons, restrictions, tags, and accessibility to fit within the herd management objectives.
Whether people using longbows, recurves, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, percussion, in-lines, handguns, iron sights, telescopic sights, or anything else all approve of each other's choice of implement is not their concern. They just need to manage the program to be within what their herd management objectives are. If a new implement gains popularity, and enough people express an interest in using it, they'll find a place for it.
The only thing about this is the two don’t normally coincide as far as changing rules to deer herd sizes. For example, the last two years most of the Hudson valley has been hammered with EHD.
Rule changes this year allows you to now shoot 30 min before sunrise and 30 min after sunset- extended the muzzleloader season from Xmas to New Years and they gave out doe tags like candy at Halloween.
One thing I think we have to factor as far as introducing youth to hunting is to actually have a good deer herd. We have rule changes in this state every few years that make it easier to take deer. Years ago they changed the season to start on Saturday instead of Monday adding a weekend- then they extended the bow season 2 weeks longer- then they added xbow- now they’ve extended muzzleloader and shooting times. If you take youth out hunting and they barely ever see deer the will get bored fast and not want to go anymore in my opinion.
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Laundron, I'm originally from NJ, and those same issues kept coming up there too. It seemed like the more suburbia spread out to formerly rural areas, the less huntable land was available, and the more comfortable the deer got with people, especially when hunting was not allowed in those places. Seasons and bag limits became more generous, but with the requirement for additional tags, it made the state more money. NJ has a stamp, or a tag, or a permit for almost everything you'd want to do hunting or fishing wise. It makes you wonder what really is the main objective, wildlife or dollars.
I completely agree that attracting younger people (or anyone new for that matter) is important, and they need to at least see deer when they hunt. Just like taking new people fishing....they have to catch something.
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The bill in assembly is a1299 you can go on it and voice your support if you want. this will help get crossbow into all bow season and take off limb and weight restriction.
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Truth is it will be implemented, public comment is to make it look like DEC wants your imput. All to passify people.