Future of New York deer hunting at stake with DEC’s proposed....

[swamplover11]

Future of New York deer hunting at stake with DEC’s proposed, 10-year deer management plan

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/outdoors/2020/12/future-of-new-york-deer-hunting-at-stake-with-decs-proposed-10-year-deer-management-plan.html

 dec website https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html

[Yotehntr]

In a nutshell, kill as much as possible, and throw out anything that resembles herd management.

[MountainHunter]

Have either of you read the entire plan yet, if so what were your thoughts? I read the few pages that gave the brief summary but I haven't opened the link yet to the entire plan. When I have time I will read through it all.

[Tippin'Scales]

I guess they are looking to rescind Mandatory Antler Restrictions.  What are the majority of you think on this?

[MountainHunter]

If anyone wants to read the report, skip to page 73 as it seems that is where it begins to summarize the things they are proposing.

[Melly-Mel...]

Joke, this state will never reach potential to have the hunting we should. The management is trash.  Now they wanna get rid of the small a mount of antler restrictions they have?  It needs to be state wide.   

[GrizG]

There are a few key assumptions that are driving the proposal. One is that the number of hunters has been steadily declining since the 1980s. The other is that access to huntable lands has been steadily decreasing at the same time. I think we all understand both of those problems... and both of these trends have helped deer populations increase (ignore this year's virus carnage) along with the attendant habitat destruction, crop destruction, and property damage (e.g., vehicle collisions, landscaping).

Questions like the following expose some of the problems: How many youth are socialized to hunting today compared to say the 1960s and '70s? How many more big chunks of huntable land are going to be lost to future projects that gobble up land (projects like Legoland, Amazon warehouses, Farm Hub, large housing developments, etc.)? How many two-income families don't hunt because of child care issues? How many households headed by women socialize their children to guns, archery, and hunting? How is the huge influx of NYC, LI, and NJ people into upstate going to further limit access.

We've had a lot of new gun owners locally and nationally in recent years, many of them women, but they aren't hunters and have no interest in joining clubs. Rather they are defensive gun owners and target shooters. Keep in mind too that perhaps the biggest cohort of active hunters are aging out... those of us who started hunting in '70s and '80s were there at the peak of hunter participation but we will likely see a big step drop in our numbers over the next decade due to infirmity, death, and what I'll describe as a loss of "blood lust."

The woods where I've hunting for nearly 50 years are a mess now. The over-browsing by deer has wiped out the food supply in big parts of the woods so the deer are feeding in the residential neighborhoods. The woods are not self sustaining as the deer wipe out all the new growth quickly--there are no saplings. While cutting down hazard trees I've had deer come up and eat the leaves off the crown of maple trees while I was bucking the same tree at the butt end. My presence with a Stihl MS461 didn't phase them until I was perhaps 20 feet away... they moved back a bit and watched. When I finished bucking they came back and devoured the brush. Add in the mass die off of ash, hemlock, cedar and pine and those woods are in serious trouble in regards to wildlife habitat. Woodpeckers dominant those woods by numbers...

Anyhow, I don't read the proposal as abandoning deer management or antler restrictions or promoting over-hunting. On the contrary, it strikes me as an attempt to expand hunting opportunities for those who would like to hunt but are limited by access and time constraints.

[cbyzerman]

Goodluck getting mega millionaire or billionaires to open up there land with small tax incentives...  Dumbest idea I ever heard of...........

[ATbuckhunter]

One of the best things they can do is to manage the lands in the catskills IMO. Large swaths of land with declining habitat for pretty much everything. Only problem is its considered preserve, making it hard to clear cut, which is mostly what needs to be done.

[GrizG]

One of the best things they can do is to manage the lands in the catskills IMO. Large swaths of land with declining habitat for pretty much everything. Only problem is its considered preserve, making it hard to clear cut, which is mostly what needs to be done.

Yes, the lands within the "Blue Line" are forest preserve and habitat work isn't allowed. The state constitution makes it off limits to logging, development, etc.  The only thing we have going for us is that DEP has a forestry management program and will be logging various of their properties in coming years. Ruffed Grouse Society tried numerous times over the past 8-10 years to gain access to DEP properties for additional habitat work. It was a series of starts and stops and is now all but a dead effort--things looked like they were all set and someone at DEP killed it each time for seemingly random reasons.

DEC did come out with their "young forest" initiative a few years back. It was first publicly announced at the RGS banquet in Kingston. Basically the initiative is to have 10% of the lands in WMAs in the young successional stage. They've been doing something like that at Partridge Run in south western Albany county for quite some time... including clear cutting for habitat development. 

Some landowners in the Catskills have undertaken habitat projects on their lands. The Catskill Forest Association offers habitat management assistance as do groups like Ruffed Grouse Society.  https://catskillforest.org/  You don't need hundreds or thousands of acres to participate!

[Yotehntr]

What about all the other state forests, that are Majority mature hardwoods , with little or no understory. Sterling forest, Harriman park, Hudson highlands Shawangunks.. all of them could use clear cuts and selective cuts. Wildlife, will increase and a lot of money would be Made at the same time.

[ATbuckhunter]

One of the best things they can do is to manage the lands in the catskills IMO. Large swaths of land with declining habitat for pretty much everything. Only problem is its considered preserve, making it hard to clear cut, which is mostly what needs to be done.

Yes, the lands within the "Blue Line" are forest preserve and habitat work isn't allowed. The state constitution makes it off limits to logging, development, etc.  The only thing we have going for us is that DEP has a forestry management program and will be logging various of their properties in coming years. Ruffed Grouse Society tried numerous times over the past 8-10 years to gain access to DEP properties for additional habitat work. It was a series of starts and stops and is now all but a dead effort--things looked like they were all set and someone at DEP killed it each time for seemingly random reasons.

DEC did come out with their "young forest" initiative a few years back. It was first publicly announced at the RGS banquet in Kingston. Basically the initiative is to have 10% of the lands in WMAs in the young successional stage. They've been doing something like that at Partridge Run in south western Albany county for quite some time... including clear cutting for habitat development. 

Some landowners in the Catskills have undertaken habitat projects on their lands. The Catskill Forest Association offers habitat management assistance as do groups like Ruffed Grouse Society.  https://catskillforest.org/  You don't need hundreds or thousands of acres to participate!

I never heard about the young forest iniative...did it gain any traction? My last conversation with the DEP back in august, I was told they are going to be doing more forest managment as they are seeing an increase of water quality with succesional growth. I really think that'll help out more than anything in the catskill and the Adirondacks. A lot of good land thats only degrading in habitat

[GrizG]

I never heard about the young forest iniative...did it gain any traction? My last conversation with the DEP back in august, I was told they are going to be doing more forest managment as they are seeing an increase of water quality with succesional growth. I really think that'll help out more than anything in the catskill and the Adirondacks. A lot of good land thats only degrading in habitat

Yes, the young forest initiative is DEC policy and I understand they have done some projects.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/104218.html

A biologist from Ruffed Grouse Society met with DEP a number of times about habitat development. From those meetings they told him they were changing their management policies to take habitat into account. Water quality was part of that discussion.