Looking for pistol recommendations

[LouieM]

I believe NY still requires that once you are approved for a handgun you must buy one within a short period of time.

I got my permit in Sullivan County in the last few years and that was not a current rule (at least for the county).  I also heard that you needed to buy a handgun and bring the receipt before they would issue permit but now they issued permit card and I had to bring back receipt to get permit card amended before picking up.  There was no set time I had to buy one to keep permit

[GrizG]

I believe NY still requires that once you are approved for a handgun you must buy one within a short period of time.

I got my permit in Sullivan County in the last few years and that was not a current rule (at least for the county).  I also heard that you needed to buy a handgun and bring the receipt before they would issue permit but now they issued permit card and I had to bring back receipt to get permit card amended before picking up.  There was no set time I had to buy one to keep permit

My son was recently issued a full carry in Ulster County and there was no mention of a time limit. After he picked up the permit he bought a gun and went back for the coupon. The downside is that the purchase still had to be approved by a judge so there was a delay in picking it up. The issuing judge commented that my son having taken a safety course as well as an Article 35 course with a professional trainer made him comfortable issuing the full carry permit.

[jmack413]

not sure about the time line to buy a gun, have talked to the ulster guys about this in permit office ,said they have permits sitting for over a year waiting for people to pick them up. might be a county by county thing . they change things on a whim all the time

[Tippin'Scales]

I believe NY still requires that once you are approved for a handgun you must buy one within a short period of time.

I got my permit in Sullivan County in the last few years and that was not a current rule (at least for the county).  I also heard that you needed to buy a handgun and bring the receipt before they would issue permit but now they issued permit card and I had to bring back receipt to get permit card amended before picking up.  There was no set time I had to buy one to keep permit

My son was recently issued a full carry in Ulster County and there was no mention of a time limit. After he picked up the permit he bought a gun and went back for the coupon. The downside is that the purchase still had to be approved by a judge so there was a delay in picking it up. The issuing judge commented that my son having taken a safety course as well as an Article 35 course with a professional trainer made him comfortable issuing the full carry permit.

May I ask what judge he was assigned?

What is Article 35 course, was that the live fire additional training? Safeshoot mentioned an additional live fire course after I go thru the additional NRA online segment to complete my safety training, is this same or different?

I have squeaky clean record other than a couple minor traffic violations that I've never even had 1 point go on my license so I'm hopeful of getting full carry first go around but I'm sure many others feel same but are denied. 

[Geezer]

OK, it sounds like you no longer need to hurry out to buy a gun once you are approved. It has been quite a few years since I got my permit, but at the time the thinking was that you don't need the permit if you don't own a handgun so you better get one as soon as possible.

[GrizG]

My son was recently issued a full carry in Ulster County and there was no mention of a time limit. After he picked up the permit he bought a gun and went back for the coupon. The downside is that the purchase still had to be approved by a judge so there was a delay in picking it up. The issuing judge commented that my son having taken a safety course as well as an Article 35 course with a professional trainer made him comfortable issuing the full carry permit.

May I ask what judge he was assigned?

What is Article 35 course, was that the live fire additional training? Safeshoot mentioned an additional live fire course after I go thru the additional NRA online segment to complete my safety training, is this same or different?

I have squeaky clean record other than a couple minor traffic violations that I've never even had 1 point go on my license so I'm hopeful of getting full carry first go around but I'm sure many others feel same but are denied.

Article 35 refers to NYS penal law Article 35 on the use of force and deadly physical force.  It's about knowing if and when you can deploy a weapon in defense of self or others. This is much different from going to the range and learning how to shoot and learning how to be a safe gun handler... It's great if you can shoot the eye out of a squirrel at 25 yards but knowing if you should shoot, or even display a gun, is perhaps more important to your long term freedom and financial security.   

For example, there was a former NYC transit cop in the armed guard training I took for academic reasons. He'd been in multiple shoot outs on the job and was sweating and visibly shaking on the range due to what amounted to PTSD from the gun fights. He wasn't what I'd call a "good shot." However, he survived not only the gun fights but the legalities that go with them because he understood the law.

In short, knowing how to shoot is only half the equation. Knowing when to shoot is the other half.  The judges seem to be interested in whether applicants understand that... the applicant having training helps give the judges confidence in their decisions about issuing a full carry. That is generally more important than the "judge lottery" that comes up as a discussion item from time to time. Some may view this as an infringement but I, after spending decades looking at gun issues see it as a smart survival tool. I took a deep academic dive into gun issues over my life. That ranges from Constitutional, criminology, sociology, organizational, regulation, shooting, training, and working in a gunsmith shop. My associates laid the ground work for Heller and McDonald and I critiqued papers and journal articles to support good public policy.

Because of all of that experience I know that there are others who have specialized knowledge who should be consulted on specific topics. Not to offend anyone, but quite frankly, the last guy I'd take advice from on the use of force is the guy behind the gun counter... the overwhelming majority of them haven't been trained in and don't know the practical application of Article 35.  I'm not inclined to take advice from a cop either as they are given more latitude in the legal system than Joe Citizen--and are indemnified by their departments regardless of how good or badly they do things. It's just the way it is. A professional trainer, preferably one whom has courtroom experience, is a better option. Such training is any eye opener and some students have changed their mind about carrying a gun after participating in such a course.

Anyhow, this probably all sounds preachy. I apologize for that, but I won't apologize for raising awareness and provoking thought.

[goodorbit]

A suggestion:
You can go to a place like SafeShoot in Kingston and rent guns to shoot on their range. (Not sure if you can do this before getting the PP tho)
I shot a P365 there because small guns are often "snappy", good to "try before you buy" for sure, now looking to buy one. LOL

[Tippin'Scales]

My son was recently issued a full carry in Ulster County and there was no mention of a time limit. After he picked up the permit he bought a gun and went back for the coupon. The downside is that the purchase still had to be approved by a judge so there was a delay in picking it up. The issuing judge commented that my son having taken a safety course as well as an Article 35 course with a professional trainer made him comfortable issuing the full carry permit.

May I ask what judge he was assigned?

What is Article 35 course, was that the live fire additional training? Safeshoot mentioned an additional live fire course after I go thru the additional NRA online segment to complete my safety training, is this same or different?

I have squeaky clean record other than a couple minor traffic violations that I've never even had 1 point go on my license so I'm hopeful of getting full carry first go around but I'm sure many others feel same but are denied.

Article 35 refers to NYS penal law Article 35 on the use of force and deadly physical force.  It's about knowing if and when you can deploy a weapon in defense of self or others. This is much different from going to the range and learning how to shoot and learning how to be a safe gun handler... It's great if you can shoot the eye out of a squirrel at 25 yards but knowing if you should shoot, or even display a gun, is perhaps more important to your long term freedom and financial security.   

For example, there was a former NYC transit cop in the armed guard training I took for academic reasons. He'd been in multiple shoot outs on the job and was sweating and visibly shaking on the range due to what amounted to PTSD from the gun fights. He wasn't what I'd call a "good shot." However, he survived not only the gun fights but the legalities that go with them because he understood the law.

In short, knowing how to shoot is only half the equation. Knowing when to shoot is the other half.  The judges seem to be interested in whether applicants understand that... the applicant having training helps give the judges confidence in their decisions about issuing a full carry. That is generally more important than the "judge lottery" that comes up as a discussion item from time to time. Some may view this as an infringement but I, after spending decades looking at gun issues see it as a smart survival tool. I took a deep academic dive into gun issues over my life. That ranges from Constitutional, criminology, sociology, organizational, regulation, shooting, training, and working in a gunsmith shop. My associates laid the ground work for Heller and McDonald and I critiqued papers and journal articles to support good public policy.

Because of all of that experience I know that there are others who have specialized knowledge who should be consulted on specific topics. Not to offend anyone, but quite frankly, the last guy I'd take advice from on the use of force is the guy behind the gun counter... the overwhelming majority of them haven't been trained in and don't know the practical application of Article 35.  I'm not inclined to take advice from a cop either as they are given more latitude in the legal system than Joe Citizen--and are indemnified by their departments regardless of how good or badly they do things. It's just the way it is. A professional trainer, preferably one whom has courtroom experience, is a better option. Such training is any eye opener and some students have changed their mind about carrying a gun after participating in such a course.

Anyhow, this probably all sounds preachy. I apologize for that, but I won't apologize for raising awareness and provoking thought.

May I ask who offers this Article 35 course? It definitely seams like it would definitely help with decision making if the time and need were ever to arise....

[Tippin'Scales]

A suggestion:
You can go to a place like SafeShoot in Kingston and rent guns to shoot on their range. (Not sure if you can do this before getting the PP tho)
I shot a P365 there because small guns are often "snappy", good to "try before you buy" for sure, now looking to buy one. LOL

Yes I plan on taking advantage of that service at SafeShoot.... it's a pretty cool business model they have, I'm impressed.  Might need to choose from going shooting at range over playing golf when I'm not fishing! Lol

[walkabout]

Pat call that number on our home page ask for sha he does all them courses.

[GrizG]

May I ask who offers this Article 35 course? It definitely seams like it would definitely help with decision making if the time and need were ever to arise....

There is a trainer in Kingston who teaches armed guards, and civilians. He's also an expert witness in use of force court cases: 

thttacticaltraining@gmail.com for information.

Another trainer is in Syracuse:

http://www.shootershaven.com/events/article-35-use-of-force-justification-in-nys-6/

Orange County Sheriff's dept. offers a course. My caveats about LEOs as trainers applies!:

https://www.orangecountygov.com/969/Use-of-Force-NYS-Penal-Law-Article-35

Another Syracuse:

https://psanded.com/courses/defense/a35/

You may also be able to get the Article 35 training by attending a course at one of the armed guard training academies. 

There are probably others...

[GrizG]

Pat call that number on our home page ask for sha he does all them courses.

I looked there while composing my response a few minutes ago and didn't see an Article 35 course... perhaps I missed it!

[walkabout]

Maybe he dont but give him a call as he has been one of our sponsors here for 5 years.

[Tippin'Scales]

Maybe he dont but give him a call as he has been one of our sponsors here for 5 years.

Will do.... I have tons of questions as far as what courses I want for state reciprocity so I may need more instruction. 

[Overland]

Maybe he dont but give him a call as he has been one of our sponsors here for 5 years.

Will do.... I have tons of questions as far as what courses I want for state reciprocity so I may need more instruction.

For reciprocity, Utah and Florida are the big two. Even just having Utah gives you reciprocity in a tremendous number of states. However, most Northeastern states are not included in this. To be able to carry in PA you must get a PA permit, which is very easy to do. Every county in PA is different, just like in NY. The easiest thing to do is go to Scranton. I was in and out very quickly and very cheaply. There are some states where it is impossible to legally carry as a NY resident, regardless of what permits you acquire. As an aside, NY does not recognize any permits from any other state at all, so only NY residents can carry in NY.

There is a lot of information available online regarding reciprocity. Some guys work at it and try to "collect" the ability to carry in as many states as possible. I have Utah and PA and feel this is sufficient. I started the Florida process and then decided there was really no reason for me personally.

I do agree with you that my Ulster County pistol permit course was significantly lacking in a lot of the actual details regarding getting the permit and then also in carrying. Now that you have the permit, the responsibility is on you to learn the legality of carrying in different places within the state. Trying to stay within the exact letter of the law is extraordinarily difficult if you carry every day. You cannot leave your pistol in your car (unless perhaps you have a lockable safe in the vehicle). You also cannot carry it in any government building. So no stopping at the post office to mail a package. Rest areas on 87 are government-owned, so you cannot carry your pistol inside and cannot leave it in your vehicle. No stopping at one of those for gas or a snack while on your way up to the Adirondacks. You also cannot carry your pistol while you are bowhunting, as then you have a firearm with you while you are bowhunting. However, you can have a pistol with you while you are waterfowl hunting, even though the harvesting of waterfowl with any handgun at all is federally illegal (even a 410 pistol is illegal on waterfowl). This is just the tip of the iceberg. NY has a LOT of laws concerning legally carrying, laws I very much doubt most permit holders know or understand.