Author Topic: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?  (Read 4093 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tippin'Scales

  • Posted
  • NYS STAFF
  • Super Hero Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3693
  • Tippin' Scales Sportfishing
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2019, 08:02:28 AM »
Tippen im thinking 2.5 look at its back line its still nice and straight . Deer has no muscular characteristics of a muture deer. Long legs no pot belly no block head and neck and body junction very small. Its a young buck with a nice rack.. JMO. 
I agree

That too is my thinking a really good 2.5 year old. Hopefully he's spread his seed with a bunch of does before I see him again ;D

Offline GooseCommander

  • NYS Mentor
  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1187
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2019, 08:54:44 AM »
In response to not shooting a doe, I think it is the fact that a doe is biologically the only one that can produce offspring (yes a buck is needed, but only for the breeding). At least that is my experience from having grown up in northern NY where deer numbers are quite less than here in the HV.

Take for instance, a single doe which left unharvested for 3 years can directly/indirectly produce 8 deer on the landscape if all deer born to her and her offspring were does. Basically, the population doubles (not taking into account any negative effects resulting in a death). If twins are born, the numbers increase faster like a pyramid scheme. A doe producing twin fawns one being a doe and the other a buck would be ideal. Most states (including NY), their deer management plan is reactionary in the fact that if their is a negative impact to the herd (winter kill, higher than expected harvest, some rampant disease) it will take a bit longer to get the numbers back (reduction in doe permits for a time being is really the only tool NY DEC has). So to shoot the young buck, it only negatively impacts the potential for a larger one provided it makes it to 3.5 years or older. Harvesting a doe, impacts the subsequent population - what the DEC tries to manage with DMPs (only one facet of a deer management strategy).

While AR is great, I feel it only moves the line in the sand from harvesting any 1.5 year old bucks to harvesting 2.5 year olds - still far from their potential. I just spent 4 days bow hunting public land in Ohio and their deer management plan is different than NY's. They allow only the harvest of 1 buck a year, 1 doe on public land a year (a recent change to increase the deer population from a dip) and a short gun season outside the rut (7 days in early December and 2 days in mid December). They also have a 4 day muzzleloader season in January. You can't harvest a doe on public land after the first gun season. Their bow season runs until the end of February and allow crossbows the entire season. They also enforce their deer laws with greater severity.

With that said, my group had some of the best public deer hunting to date - I can only imagine what access to private land could be like out there. We saw deer from different age classes even with an unbelievable amount of hunting pressure (saw plates from Michigan, Vermont, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York). The woods were literally littered with hunters, trail cameras, stands and glow in the dark tacks. With all this, I personally saw 8 does and 5 bucks including a 150 inch class bruiser, 120 inch 8 pointer and 3 basket racks - all this while hunting new spots each day learning the area.

I'm not saying AR doesn't work (I think it has been a good first step and would be in favor of it state wide), but in Ohio our group was willing to pass on the 100 to 120 inch deer knowing there was a good possibility of seeing something better. In NY, we are shooting those 100 to 120 inch deer. Also, ODNR more readily manages their habitat by logging and mowing their public lands as well as planting food plots - something very lacking here in NY.

In the end, some will say AR is great and some will say it isn't enough - I say just enjoy hunting and what it means to you as long as it is done ethically and legally.

And no, I didn't connect with anything in Ohio, but we are going back next year for 9 days instead of 4 days.
"A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be... time to commune with your inner soul as you share the outdoors with the birds, animals, and fish that live there."  --Fred Bear

Offline Carm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2019, 11:20:36 AM »
I'd say GooseCommander is right on it.  AR is only one piece to the puzzle.  If the state wants to achieve goals (which ultimately is a healthy age and sex makeup) they need to re-think season dates and harvests to include when you can use gun/bow/crossbow/muzzle.  That followed by taking a greater and more active role in habitat management.  I guess there is a reason you saw all those different license plates in Ohio.  You'd be hard pressed to find that here in NY.

Offline MK

  • Super Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1277
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2019, 12:17:20 PM »
In westchester there are alot of mature bucks because of the archery only rule but there are less then ever now a days. My theory is that forever it was always Nov. 1st was opening day archery. For at least 10 years now its been Oct. 1st. Thats 31 more days of guys shooting bucks in general big or small.

I agree Chris! That and A LOT of competition for limited access areas!
Facebook Page "NY Reservoir Trout"

Offline grazan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • "Failing to plan is planning to fail"
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2019, 12:18:44 PM »
touchy subject for some ….. I have personally seen the rewards of not shooting YOUNG bucks on private property ….. after 5 years I now see multiple 8 pointers and up on a piece of property that had big spikes and 4 pointers walking around ….. letting a deer live to 3 or 4 years will produce decent racks …… theres plenty of doe permits available for those who want meat ….. forcing someone's else will onto others will never be well received but patience will pay off ….

heres 2 discussions on the subject ……mARK Kenyon WITH sTEVE Rinella https://youtu.be/TeV68FDB5NM

AND AN ARTICLE

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/whitetail-deer/do-antler-point-restrictions-work

"FISHING IS A JERK ON ONE END OF  A LINE WAITING FOR A JERK ON THE OTHER" Robert Hughes.. If you hunt or fish you should be a member of https://www.backcountryhunters.org, https://www.deerassociation.com/ AND https://www.nwtf.org/  & https://www.howlforwildlife.org/join?recruiter_id=23492

Offline robert338

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2019, 07:44:05 PM »
Tippin..as far as why older hunters would choose to shoot a doe over a buck, i still believe there are a lot of hunters out there who believe that 1.5 old spikes and fours will never amount to anything bigger and they would rather shoot them thinking they are helping the gene pool out...which is not the case....i personally do not eat venison so i wouldnt know , does a doe taste better than a buck?....again, people should do what makes them happy....another thing i find funny is that almost everytime you see a hunter post a doe kill, its always followed with..."i shot this huge mature doe" or some other statement as if to justify why they killed a doe....whats wrong with just saying " i shot this doe this afternoon"....i dunno...theres no need to justify what you shoot...so long as your happy

Offline WEM144

  • Super Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2575
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2019, 08:41:41 PM »
Did anyone take the time to read the Mr Henry’s previous post?  I don’t know how it can be argued.
Oh Yeah !

Offline Take Em

  • Super Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3447
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2019, 08:53:46 PM »
See what you started Pat?  x:)

I’m all for AR. Started hunting about 30yrs ago in 3C and you very rarely saw someone with a really nice buck. Nowadays more and more guys are seeing and harvesting several mature bucks in the same 3C area that I live and hunt. I’m also seeing an increase in the doe population which is a beautiful thing. I would however like to see the hunters around 60-65 to be exempt from AR just like the youths.

One other thing. I feel a little safer knowing some yahoo can’t just fire off shots at something brown moving in the thicket. I was afraid to walk through some patches of woods back in the day. Antler restriction has made the rifle season a bit safer in my opinion.

And maybe someday I’ll share some of my trail cam photos to help back things up 8)

Offline Tippin'Scales

  • Posted
  • NYS STAFF
  • Super Hero Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 3693
  • Tippin' Scales Sportfishing
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2019, 09:06:20 PM »
See what you started Pat?  x:)

I’m all for AR. Started hunting about 30yrs ago in 3C and you very rarely saw someone with a really nice buck. And nowadays more and more guys are seeing and harvesting mature bucks in the same unit. I’m also seeing an increase in doe population. I would however like them to allow hunters over 60 or 65 to be exempt from AR just like the youths.

Haha, I wanted to spice things up in here.... I knew it would inspire some open conversations for a change.

I agree with the AR exemption for over 65 plus maybe those 65 could use crossbow all of Archery season.

I'm interested to hear if you guys and gals think possibly the advances and affordability of trail cameras have also aided in modern hunters being more selective? Unlike the early years you just never really knew what was in your area until put eyes on a buck in the field so was this part of the instinct to shoot first legal buck or spike you come across?

Has technology changed our mindset about AR too ?

Offline greensider

  • Super Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 7092
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2019, 06:12:05 AM »
Absolutely cameras help young bucks get a pass I know several hunters who once seeing a big buck on camera in their spot will let bucks they would have taken get a pass

Offline sierra6

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2019, 06:37:49 AM »
Well, if you look at the bucks in 3j and  3c,( like stated original pilot program areas) the results speak for themselves. And I have been noticing a lot more yearling bucks with 8 pt racks for there first set of antlers, which leads me to believe that the genetics have gotten better since program has started. Those young bucks with 7 or 8 point racks turn out to be slammers. Young hunters can still shoot a spike or 4pt until 17 years old, I really think the DEC got it right. Plenty of legal bucks out there, for hunters to harvest.

Like Tipping scales said, let's here from the folks in not AR units.


Well said!  I not only believe in the antler restriction, but I also think NY could benefit from an earn a buck tag program that would require hunters to take and report an antlerless deer before being issued their buck tag.   That would improve the buck/doe ratio and in concert with the antler restrictions the herd would mature and improve even more. 

Offline ruck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2019, 07:03:36 AM »
I'm 100% for antler restrictions, except for a youth hunters first buck.
 The argument guys toss around about really needing the meat is absurd in this day and age, go get a job, or shoplift a grocery store. OK, I'm being harsh, so maybe for those poor unfortunates, the DEC can make it so that if you don't get a doe tag, your regular license can be used either for an AR buck, or a doe. After all, this is a liberal state, we wouldn't want to see anyone go hungry.
 For safety reasons I don't think there should ever be a scenario where every deer is legal. That would only encourage certain brain deads to shoot at sounds and shapes in the semi darkness.

Offline KillerCrow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2019, 10:17:36 AM »
I am 100% for ar, the deer are getting bigger and as mentioned the first year bucks seem to be carrying better genetics, I am all about shoot a doe and let em grow, we have a way out of balance deer heard which is  a cause for smaller bucks not enough nutrients to produce the heave antlers due to an over abundance of does,
p.s I have never made an excuse for shooting a doe, be it mature or a yearling, a family favorite is rack of Bambi

Offline Yotehntr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2019, 06:01:54 PM »
I agree with greensider. I think there’s something up with that deer. He looks malnourished the fat deposit above the tail is missing and looks thin. Nice rack on him for sure.

Offline LouieM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
Re: What are your thoughts on Antler Restrictions?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2019, 07:07:51 AM »
I am in favor of AR but also people are doing their homework a lot more now and that can account for more big bucks too.  Lots of people are scouting public land or setting up their private land for deer habitat.  A lot less just sitting a random stump 150yds from the road and a lot more scouting and calculated sits happening.  At least from the dedicated hunters.  This mixed with people more willing to pass younger deer willingly and the numbers of mature bucks goes up.   

I have heard it discussed by biologist and seen mentioned here already so I won't attempt to describe again but killing a doe annually will not destroy a herd like once thought.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal